Tuesday, April 20, 2010

How can Vatican Council II contradict an ex cathedra dogma? We have to accept the interpretation of Fr.Hans Kung,Fr.William Most, Wikipedia and Catholic Answers ?

We have to accept the interpretation of Fr.Hans Kung,Fr.William Most, Wikipedia and Catholic Answers ?

Fondamenti della Fede Cattolica (Fundamentals of the Catholic Faith) is in heresy for rejecting the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. They are also indicating that Vatican Council II has contradicted the ex cathedra dogma outside the Church there is no salvation.


The book assumes that the Baptism of desire and invincible ignorance refer to de facto salvation, which you can judge when you meet a Hindu, Muslim or Jew.


This is false since Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II refers not to de facto but to de jure salvation.

Fr. Leonard Feeney mentioned the Baptism of Desire and so spoke about it as a concept. Something you can discuss intellectually. He rejected it as knowable de facto in actual fact when I meet a non-Catholic.

St. Thomas Aquinas mentioned invincible ignorance as a concept, a possibility known only to God and not as an actual fact that one can judge in a person. For St. Thomas Aquinas everyone had to de facto with no exception enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.

When there is the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus how can Vatican Council II contradict this infallible teaching? It would mean that we are interpreting Vatican Council II wrongly.

The issue is Lumen Gentium 16.Why should we interpret Lumen Gentium 16 according to Fr. Hans Kung, Fr. William Most, Wikipedia etc when there is another interpretation?

The popes who gave us the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus were also familiar with the writings of all the Church Fathers. They considered implicit faith not as referring to de facto salvation.

This is obvious from the dogma itself; everyone needs to enter the Church with no exceptions to avoid Hell.

So the popes were saying that if some one is saved in certain circumstances, known only to God it would be de jure salvation.

God would make it possible for this person to be baptized and know the Catholic Faith though someone he would send or God would inspire him, as said by St. Thomas Aquinas.

Since implicit faith was there in the writings of the Church Fathers and also in the 1949 Letter of the Holy Office it was NOT mentioned for the first time in Vatican Council II (LG 16) and then repeated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

So if Fr. Hans Kung, Fr. William Most, Wikipedia and Catholic Answers interpret implicit faith and Vatican Council II as referring to de facto salvation - and so opposing the dogma, we are under no obligation to follow their error.
This is an error in the book Fondamenti della Fede Cattolica. The book in Italian is published by the CASA MARIANA 83040 Frigento (AV), Italy. It is a translation of the book by Padre Guglielmo Most, (Fr. William Most) and translated into Italian by Attilio Tempra SSP (Casa Mariana, Maria SS. Del Buon Consiglio, 83040 Frigenteo (AV), 1991 of the Franciscans of the Immaculatesegretgenfi@immacolata.com  ). It has ecclesiastical approval.
The community's address is : FRATI FRANCESCANI DELL' IMMACOLATA,Sede Generalizia,Casa Mariana "Porta del Cielo",Via Palazzolo, 2 00040 - ROCCA DI PAPA (Roma),Tel. 06 94790024

I mentioned to Bro.Jerome, a Franciscan Friar of the community in Rome that the ex cathedra dogma says that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.
He said that this applies to only those who know about the Catholic Church.
Here is the ex cathedra dogma. It does not say that only those who know about the Catholic Church and yet do not enter will go to Hell but everyone ; all people.

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215).


2. “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 302.).

3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) – from the website Catholicism.org and “No Salvation outside the Church”: Link List, the Three Dogmatic Statements Regarding EENS)
So the dogma is saying that everyone in Rome with no exception needs to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. So if there are cases of implicit faith (invincible ignorance etc) they would be known to God only. We cannot say that de facto there are a certain number of cases of invincible ignorance in Rome. Neither can we even say that de jure there are a certain number of cases of the baptism of desire in Rome.
So it is irrelevant and irrational.
The ex cathedra dogma, Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are saying that everyone(non Catholics) with no exception in Rome need to convert to avoid Hell.