CatholicCulture.org and extra ecclesiam nulla salus: we can choose between two interpretations of Vatican Council II

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Salvation for Non-Catholics: Not a New Idea

By Dr. Jeff Mirus

August 05, 2010 6:52 PM

The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum) cites St. Paul’s letter to the Romans when it asserts the possibility for salvation for non-Catholics and even for non-Christians. The assertion is made in the process of explaining the stages of Revelation. I’ve argued many times that this possibility has always been held by the Church. Indeed, the Letter to the Romans shows that a proper understanding of the question was already outlined in Sacred Scripture itself.

Lionel: Even those of us who support Fr. Leonard Feeney agree there is a possibility of non Catholics being saved ‘in certain circumstances’(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).This is not in conflict with the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus . The dogma says everyone needs to be an explicit, visible member of the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell and there are no exceptions. So everyone needs to be a formal member of the Church to avoid Hell, the infallible teaching says, and, we know if there is anyone with invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire or blood or a good conscience it will be known only to God.

I was reminded of the controversy when I summarized Dei Verbum earlier in the week, though I passed over it in the interests of brevity. I return to it now because so many seem to misunderstand it. The passage in question occurs early in the first chapter where the Council discusses God’s preliminary self-revelation through created things. The fathers state:

God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after the fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7).

The text then proceeds to the call of Abraham, the patriarchs, Moses and the prophets, and finally to the coming of Christ Himself.

Now, from the quoted passage in this Dogmatic Constitution, we see the Church asserting again that even non-Christians can be saved (as many Traditionalists and Feeneyites have flatly denied)

Lionel: Everyone on earth needs Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water to be saved (Ad Gentes 7). The Church knows of no other means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water (CCC 1257) given to adults with Catholic Faith.This was also the teaching of Fr.Leonard Feeney.

There can be no case of the Baptism of Desire which can be known explicitly or implicitly by us. We do not know any case of the Baptism of Desire in our lifetime. It is only God who gives this grace and only he knows to whom it is explicit.

Since no one knows of a particular person who is being saved with the Baptism of Desire we cannot place it against the de fide teaching that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church.

Then there is the definition of the Baptism of Desire on the website of the St.Benedict Centre,NH,USA (Catholicsm.org). So we cannot say that this community of Fr.Leonard Feeney denies the Baptism of Desire.

and that, furthermore, they can be saved without a last-minute chance to accept Christ and the Church through a private revelation offered to those deemed sufficiently oriented toward the good (as some modern Feeneyites, struggling to hold a position more compatible with Catholic teaching, now argue).

Lionel: They can be saved in a last-minute chance but then again this is a hypothetical case. We do not know any one in particular and can never really know. So it is not in conflict with the ex cathedra dogma which says everyone in particular needs to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. Fr.Leonard Feeney and his community members and supporters say the same.

Rather, the Council states that it is simply part of God’s Providential care for man to give eternal life “to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation”.

Lionel: And this search must orient them into the Catholic Church outside of which no one can be saved.

It goes without saying that the salvation of every person of whatsoever condition is made possible only by Christ’s redemptive sacrifice.

Lionel: A person must respond to receive this salvation.One responds by living the Gospel within the Catholic Church, by entering the Church which the Bible tells us is Jesus’ Mystical Body.

One must be incorporated somehow into Christ to be saved, and this includes a real if mysterious joining to His mystical body the Church, even for those who are not juridical members.

Lionel: Correct. Formal entry is needed for all with no exception.

Pope John Paul II called this “substantial” rather than “formal” membership, and I do not question it.

 Lionel: No one can know when his membership is substantial. Hence for salvation everyone needs to be a formal member of the Church. This is the teaching of the infallible dogma and other Church documents.

But here we are talking about what God requires for salvation from those who have been given very little, and in fact what he requires is that they “perseveringly do good in search of salvation” according to whatever understanding of the Good and God they have been given, even if this is only from creation itself. It is this response to whatever grace the Holy Spirit has written in their hearts which alone suffices to join them to Christ in an invisible way.

The Conciliar reference, again, is to Romans 2:6-7. St. Paul is rebuking Jews who think they will be saved by the Law while those without the Law will, by that fact alone, be damned. This is very similar to the case of those who trust in juridical (external) membership in the Church, as if all formal members are pleasing to God and all those beyond the bounds of formal membership are reprobate.

Lionel: For salvation one needs to be a formal member of the Catholic Church and at the time of death be without a single mortal sin.

But Paul says this is not how God works:

For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. (Rom 2:6-8) (portion cited by the Council in italics)

The rest of the relevant verses in chapter 2 are equally instructive:

There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:8-16)

It is not at all a new idea, then, that salvation is possible to those who do not know Christ or His Church.

Lionel:True. As long as we know that this can happen in only ‘certain circumstances’ and is not the general rule of salvation.

The equally certain teaching that “outside the Church there is no salvation” refers to the fact that all those who respond properly to whatever grace they are given are mysteriously joined to Christ, and in fact are substantial if not formal members of the Church, as several Popes have taught using various terms to express the idea.

Lionel: When one responds to the grace given then one chooses to be a formal member of the Catholic Church. This grace is available for all.


If there is someone in invincible ignorance etc then it will be known to God only and he will provide the necessary helps, as St.Thomas Aquinas says.

Clearly, then, anyone who understands what the Church is and knowingly rejects her cannot be saved.

Lionel: This would include millions of people in the cities of the developed world. In Rome all Jews, Muslims and other Catholics know about the Catholic Church and so they are all oriented to Hell (Ad Gentes 7)

But those who, despite their unfortunate ignorance, “perseveringly do good in search of salvation” can be.

Lionel: True however it must be remembered that this is just a concept for us.We do not know any particular person.

The conscious opportunity to draw into union with God using the totality of graces and teachings present only in the Church is an incomparable gift. The beauty and wonder of this gift is only magnified by the fact that salvation is also possible without it.

Lionel: No salvation is possible without it. Everyone is saved through Jesus and His Mystical Body the Church. There are only Catholics in Heaven.

Of course, this too has its dangers, for to whom much has been given, from him much will be demanded (Lk 12:48). But nowhere in the relevant Magisterial texts down through the centuries is there any teaching that—for those who have been given little—something they have not been given will be required.

Lionel: The Magisterial texts indicate that every one must be a card carrying member of the Catholic Church, to avoid Hell and there are no exceptions.

Note: There are can be two intrerpretations of Vatican Council II

1. According to Jeffrey Mirus

The ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus says everybody needs to be an explicit member of the Church and there are no exceptions however according to Dei Verbum ,Lumen Gentium 16 etc a person can be saved who is not a member of the Catholic Church. So Vatican Council II refutes or contradicts the infallible teaching.

2. According to Lionel Andrades

The ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus says everybody needs to be an explicit member of the Church and there are no exceptions and if a person is saved who is not a member of the Catholic Church (LG 16,Vatican Council II etc) then this will be known only to God. So Vatican Council II does not contradict the infallible teaching.

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Jeffrey Mirus  is  President of CatholicCulture.org.His report is available on the main page of the website.

TIME MAGAZINE CIRCULATES FALSE INFORMATION ON CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHING

The Jewish Left media like Time has always been an ideological US publication with an anti-Catholic agenda. The following report (Religion: I Preach hatred)  available on the Internet shows the bias which has been cultivated and maintained since the 1940’s.

It criticizes Fr.Leonard Feeney. It  says the Archbishop of Boston  suspended the Jesuit priest because 'he took literally the Catholic doctrine that “outide the church there is no salvation” i.e insisting that everyone who is not a good Cathlolic will go to hell. '

Yet this was the text of the Catholic ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which TIME would dare not publish. It indicates all Jews and other non Catholics are on the path to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church, the only Church of the Jewish Messiah with whom God made an everlasting Covenant for all time.

Time has always maintained a pro Jewish Left policy. It has continued what Catholics could consider hate i.e the distorted and false reporting of Catholic teaching.

Religion: I Preach Hatred

Monday, Oct. 13, 1952

Three years ago, Boston's Archbishop Richard J. Gushing suspended Father Leonard Feeney from all his functions as a Roman Catholic priest (TIME, May 2, 1949). His offense: taking literally the Catholic doctrine that "outside the church there is no salvation," i.e., insisting that everyone who is not a good Catholic will go to hell.*

Father Feeney, a Jesuit teacher who was once associate editor of the magazine America, did not recant. Though he was also dismissed from the Jesuit order, he stayed at St. Benedict Center in Cambridge, a house of studies originally founded for the use of Catholic Harvard-men. A core of disciples gathered around him, most of them college students attracted by his magnetic personality and fanatic theology. Now under a hundred, they call themselves the "Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary."

A Shocked "Ooh." The "slaves" look with scorn on other U.S. Catholics, whom they regard as heretics for associating with Protestants and Jews. Most of them lave left their families for a semi-monastic life of prayer and preaching in Cambridge. In isolation, their cult has grown narrower in its fanaticism—and angrier at the world of unbelievers outside. Early in September, Archbishop Gushing published a Vatican decree approving his condemnation of Feeney, and church authorities are now considering a formal ban of excommunication.

The threat of further church action has made the slaves angrier still. Last week, as is their custom, they marched out to hold their weekly meeting on Boson Common. There were 50 of them, almost all under 35, the men dressed in black suits and black ties, the women in black dresses and short-visored black caps. As a small crowd of spectators watched, they set up a portable platform with a painting of the Madonna and a crowned figure of the Infant Jesus.

After a few hymns, the speakers began. Shouted Dr. Fakhri Maluf, onetime Boston College philosophy teacher: "It is heresy to believe that there can be salvation for the Christ-hating and Mary-hating people . . . Archbishop Gushing stuck his head out in heresy against us . . . Our Lady, Scourge of Heretics, punish him!" Some orthodox Catholic spectators let out a shocked "ooh," but the slaves clapped and applauded.

Some Holy Water. Then Father Feeney, a flashing-eyed man of 55, took over the platform. "Archbishop Gushing is a heretic," he began. A heckler interrupted. Shouted Feeney: "I came here to preach the love of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I found nothing but filthy adulterous faces, who attacked her." He pointed to a newspaperman making notes in the crowd. One of the girl slaves turned, scowling, and sprinkled some holy water in the reporter's direction. "I preach hatred of those who hate Jesus," Father Feeney continued. "Am I a hate-priest when I want a man to be a child of Mary? . . . Mother of God, I ask you to include those who hate me among your enemies."

His speech over, Father Feeney and his young followers concluded the meeting with some prayers and a Latin blessing. Then the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary lined up and marched off the Common. As they passed the reporter, the scowling girl held up a bottle and shook some more holy water at him.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817066-1,00.html#ixzz0vu89NpyC

Read more:  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817066-1,00.html#ixzz0vu7zvtGq

          Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817066-2,00.html#ixzz0vu7Wy1IU

*Accepted church doctrine explains, in the words of Pope Pius IX, that no one should "arrogate to himself" the right to "put limits to the divine mercy, which is infinite."

Here is the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215). Ex cathedra.

2.“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.).Ex cathedra.

3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) Ex cathedra – from the website Catholicism.org and “No Salvation outside the Church”: Link List, the Three Dogmatic Statements Regarding EENS http://nosalvationoutsideofthecatholicchurch.blogspot.com/

The ex cathedra teaching says everyone needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church.

...it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 302.). Ex Cathedra

...none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation…

...No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” - (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) Ex Cathedra

The dogma above carries the same message as Dominus Iesus 20.

20. From what has been stated above, some points follow that are necessary for theological reflection as it explores the relationship of the Church and the other religions to salvation.

Above all else, it must be firmly believed that “the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door”.77 This doctrine must not be set against the universal salvific will of God (cf. 1 Tim 2:4); “it is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for this salvation”.78

The Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation”,79 since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God's plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being.80 For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82

Feenyism is the official teaching of the Catholic Church at the time of Fr.Leonard Feeney and even today.
Dominus Iesus indicates that Feeneyism is the ordinary path of salvation (Redemptoris Missio 55).There is no theology which can say that non Catholic religions are paths to salvation (CDF,Notification,Dupuis 2001).

So it was  Cardinal Richard Cushing who made public the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 some three years after he received it from the Vatican. He allowed the media, like Times, to  misinterpret it while he remained silent. That misinterpretation is widely used by Catholics all over the world. They believe it is the official teaching of the Catholic Church.It is really the interpretation of Time magazine and the rest of the political left.

The Letter supported Fr.Leonard Feeney yet the secular media reports it was against him.


The first part of the Letter refers to doctrine and the second to discipline. Yet the two are mixed by the media and Catholics.

The first half the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston relative to Fr. Leonard Feeney affirms the ‘dogma’ the ‘infallible’ teaching .The text of the dogma supports Fr. Feeney. It indicates everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church and there are no exceptions. (See the text of the dogma at the end of this report) It also does not refer to ‘explicit’ Baptism of desire as an exception.

So how can Fr. Leonard Feeney be in heresy?

The second half of the Letter accuses Fr. Feeney of being disobedient. Time has shown that it was the Archbishop of Boston Richard Cushing who gave us a new doctrine. It said: everybody needs to enter the church except for those with the Baptism of Desire, in invincible ignorance etc. This is heresy. He and the Jesuits were saying that everyone does not have to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and there was such a thing as an explicit baptism of desire etc.

He never issued a clarification when the Boston newspapers reported that the Church had changed its centuries-old teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Even after he received the Haec Suprema he did not lift the excommunication on Fr. Feeney. He also had an important role in Vatican Council II and Lumen Gentium 16 reflects his and the Jesuits influence.

St. Maximillian Kolbe says that if your Superior teaches heresy you are not obliged to obey. Fr. Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict centre rightly disobeyed.

In 1949 the Vatican (Holy Office) and Catholics knew that a cardinal was faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. In 2010 we know it is not necessarily true.

However the Lumen Gentium 16 text is neutral and it can be interpreted in harmony with the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Secondly the cardinal’s explicit Baptism of Desire is explicit for God only. We do not know if there ever was an explicit Baptism of desire in our lifetime.

Finally, assuming Fr. Feeney was in heresy, as the secular media allege, how can the ordinary Magisterium of a pope, or, a cardinal’s (Ottaviani) statement supersede and contradict an ex cathedra dogma, in this case, thrice defined ?

So the Catholic Church’s teaching remains unchanged: Everyone needs Catholic Faith with the Baptism of water to go to Heaven and avoid Hell and if there is someone in genuine invincible ignorance etc it will be known only to God.

So the Letter’s portion on discipline/disobedience must not be confused with the earlier section on doctrine/dogma.

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 supports Fr.Leonard Feeney  and the media reports that the Letter from the Vatican condemned Fr.Feeney for heresy. There is no clarification from the present Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Sean O'Malley.

Like Time in the Wikipedia entry on ‘Fr.Leonard Feeney’ there is heavy propaganda by a lobby as if to hide the truth from Catholics about extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Boston Heresy Case.


1) Wikipedia, the internet encylopedia cannot produce a Catholic Church text which says Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy. All the documentation refers to ‘disobedience’.

2) Wikipedia agrees Fr. Leonard Feeney held the ‘strict’ actual interpretation of the dogma. So how could he be excommunicated for heresy?

3) Wikipedia never mentions that the Letter of the Holy Office, Vatican 1949 affirms the dogma, specifically by name.

4) Wikipedia makes no mention of Vatican Council II affirming the dogma outside the Church no salvation (LG 14, AG 7)

5) If as Wikipedia says he was excommunicated for heresy then it means Pope Pius XI was fallible. Since he was contradicting many other popes. It means popes are not infallible when speaking ex cathedra and that dogmas can change or be reinterpreted.

In 1949 Pope Pius XII approved the Letter of the Holy Office, Vatican to the Archbishop of Boston with reference to Fr.Leonard Feeney. The Letter endorsed ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’ and so supported the priest in the Boston Case.

Yet we will get another story from Times, Wikipedia, New York Times, Reuters and there are no clarifications issued by Catholics. They choose to be catechized by the secular media instead of the Church.
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