Thursday, September 16, 2010

UPDATED APOLOGETICS: EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS Sept.16, 2010

1. LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949

In the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 Pope Pius XII said all Jews in Boston are on the way to Hell and they need to convert. He indicated this when he referred to the ‘dogma’, ‘the infallible teaching’.

2. VATICAN COUNCIL II, LUMEN GENTIUM 16

There cannot be an explicit baptism of desire that we know of, neither can we judge cases of explicit invincible ignorance since we cannot read the heart of any person.

LG 16 refers to something implicit, known only as a concept. Probable, possible but not a reality. We do not know explicitly or implicitly (in principle) any case of a good conscience, the baptism of desire or blood or invincible ignorance in the present times or the last 100 years (If the Church declares that someone is a martyr only the Church has the right to judge).

3. FR. LEONARD FEENEY NOT EXCOMMNICATED FOR HERESY

There is no church document which says he was excommunicated for heresy. He was excommunicated for disobedience. Over time it has become clear that it was the Archbishop and Jesuits at Boston who rejected the rigorist interpretation of the ex. cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The Archbishop Richard Cushing never issued a clarification when the Boston newspapers reported that eh Church has changed its centuries old teaching.

4. INFALLIBLE DOGMAS DO NOT DEVELOP

There is no Church document to support the position that the ex cathedra dogma extra excclesiam nulla salus has been ‘developed’ or ‘changed’ or ‘retracted’. Infallible teachings defined three times do not 'develop'.

5. SALVATION OF CHRISTIANS (NON CATHOLICS)

Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council Ii says all people need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation. No church document says Christians (non Catholics) religions are the ordinary way to salvation. If a Christian is saved in his religions it will be known to only God. God can provide the helps in this exceptional case, which could include the baptism of water. In Heaven there are only Catholics.

6.HERESY
In the Apostles and Nicene Creed we pray, ‘I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin’ and ‘I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church’. Everyone needs the baptism of water to remove Original sin for salvation. It is the Holy Spirit which guides the Church to teach through the centuries the ‘rigorist interpretation’ of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. To reject the Nicene and Apostles Creed is a first class heresy in the hierarchy of truths. It would also be a rejection of the Athanasius Creed which states outside the church there is no salvation.

7. EUCHARIST
So it is mortal sin to change an ex cathedra dogma or to reject its meaning. It is a first class heresy.A person is automatically excommunicated.He has no right to receive the Eucharist at Mass.Neither can he offer Mass if he is a priest.He first needs to receive absolution in the Confessional and remove the public scandal.

8.SUPERIOR HAS TO BE A CATHOLIC

A Superior ( juridical person according to Canon Law ) has to be a Catholic. So he needs to affirm in public every ex cathedra dogma.Otherwise he cannot hold his office.Neither can one receive the Eucharist in this condition.

Here is the ex cathedra dogma which every Superior according to Canon Law are obligated to affirm and teach others.
1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215). Ex cathedra.

2.“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.).Ex cathedra.

3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) Ex cathedra – from the website Catholicism.org and “No Salvation outside the Church”: Link List, the Three Dogmatic Statements Regarding EENS

9.THERE ARE TWO INTERPRETATIONS OF VATICAN COUNCIL II

The first is: everyone needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation (Ad Gentes 7) except for those in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire etc (LG 16).

The second is: everyone needs to be a visible, formal, ‘card-carrying member’ of the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions (AG 7) and if there was someone in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire or a good conscience it would be known only to God.

10. BAPTISM OF DESIRE IS NOT OPPOSED TO THE DOGMA

Baptism of desire is usually interpreted as being opposed to the dogma which says that everyone needs to be a visible, formal member of the Church with no exceptions. We can also interpret Vatican Council II as saying that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Church to avoid Hell and if there is anyone with the Baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance it will be known only to God.

There is no Church Document which suggests that baptism of desire, invincible ignorance should be placed in opposition to the need of formal entry into the Catholic Church for everyone with no exception.

11. CCC 1257 (THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM)  AND  DE FACTO, DE JURE CONCEPT

The Catechism of the Catholic Church ( CCC 1257 ) refers to de facto salvation in the first part and de jure (in principle) salvation in the second part. Otherwise it would be ludicrous and make no sense.

It means Lumen Gentium 16 (LG 16) could refer to de jure (in principle) salvation.

If LG 16 is de jure then it is not in conflict with Ad Gentes 7, which states ,'all people' need Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water for salvation.LG 16 would be in accord with tradition.

If is not in conflict with AG 7 then it is not in conflict with the ex cathedra dogma which says everyone with no exception needs to de facto enter the Church for salvation and there are no exceptions.

12. SUPPORTERS OF FR.LEONARD FEENEY SAY THERE IS NO BAPTISM OF DESIRE

I could agree with them. It is true in a sense but it has to be clarified. Words could be used with precision.

I would say they mean:



1.There is no explicit Baptism of desire (BOD).It cannot be external and seen.
2.There is no implicit baptism of desire (BOD).It cannot be known in principle in a particular time.
3.There is no BOD without the Sacraments.(So there could be a BOD with the Sacrament).
4.There is no explicit BOD without the Sacrament of the Baptism of water.
5.There is no implicit BOD without the Sacrament of the Baptism of water.
6.There is a BOD with the Sacrament of the Baptism of water known to us as a concept and something possible 'in certain circumstances' and known always only to God.

MICHAEL VORRIS REAL CATHOLIC TV VIDEO ENDORSES RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS



MICHAEL VORRIS ENDORSES RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS


0:27 - The only people in heaven are and will be Catholics.

0:36 - I did not say that only Catholics go to heaven.

3:56 - If individuals who were not Catholic in this life are in heaven, they will be Catholic in the next.

Correct he is affirming the rigorist interpretation of the ex cathedra dogma that everyone needs to formally enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell and go to Heaven and there are no exceptions.


The only people in Heaven are and will be Catholics! Correct.

'I did not say that only Catholics go to heaven.' : In the sense of those with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance etc can also go to Heaven when God will provide them with the helps they need by sending them a preacher to baptize them or telling them what to do (St.Thomas Aquinas). So the botttomline is- when they are in Heaven they will be Catholic.

If Individuals who were not Catholic in this life are in heaven, they wil be Catholic in the next.! Amen!