Sunday, September 19, 2010

TRIDENTINE RITE PRIESTS IN ROME USING NOVUS ORDO ECCLESIOLOGY : DENYING AN EX CATHEDRA DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS, PRESENTING JESUS WITHOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

The priests in Rome who offer the Tridentine Rite Mass are not saying that the Church is necessary for salvation and neither are they affirming the rigorist interpretation of the ex cathedra dogma. Out of fear or confusion or both they are presenting the Novus Ordo Ecclesiology in their homilies.

Here are some important comparisions on the  extra ecclesiam nulla salus confusion.


A. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that there are people who can be saved with the baptism of desire or blood, in invincible ignorance etc. Fine! And they are known only to God. It does not contradict the ex cathedra teaching that every one with no exception needs to enter the Church.

B. The teaching that there can be non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance etc is placed in opposition to the infallible teaching that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church for salvation.

A. The Catechism states that outside the church there is no salvation means that all salvation comes from God and that whoever is saved is saved through Jesus and the Catholic Church. Fine. This is acceptable to us Catholics.

B. The Catechism states that outside the church there is no salvation means that all salvation comes from God and that whoever is saved , is saved through Jesus and the Church .So there can be people saved who are not formal members of the Church so everyone does not have to enter the church as the infallible teaching says.

A. Pope Pius XII in 1949 in the Letter of the Holy office mentioned 'the dogma' the 'infallible teaching' extra ecclesiam nulla salus. So the dogma is not something from medieval times. Pope Pius XII was saying through the Letter issued by Cardinal Ottaviani that all Jews in Boston and the rest of the world need to convert into the Catholic Church with no exception.

B. They suggest that the dogma is from medieval times.

A. No where in Vatican Council II is this theology presented. There is no text which claims everybody needs to enter the Church except for those in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire etc. It is an interpretation. Just one interpretation.

B. They claim it is the official teaching of Vatican Council II. It is repeated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They cannot cite any text.

A. It is heresy since it rejects an ex cathedra dogma which states everyone needs to enter the Church with no exceptions to avoid Hell (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.

B. It is not heresy since it is the teaching of Vatican Council II and not just an interpretation, one of two interpretations.

A. There can be only one interpretation of an infallible teaching; the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

B. There is the ‘rigorist interpretation’ and the non rigorist.

A. It is also irrational since how can you say everyone needs to enter the Church and yet there are people one can know who do not have to enter the church for salvation?

B. It is not irrational. It is a ‘mystery’.

A. It is also contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. Since it is saying explicitly everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation and explicitly there can be people saved with the baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc.

B. It is an accepted mystery of the Church.

A. It’s a straw man since explicitly we do not know any case in the present times of someone with the baptism of desire etc. Neither can we implicitly (in principle) know of any such case. The baptism of desire etc is accepted only as a concept a probability, known to God only. It is not an actuality for us, never.

B. The baptism of desire etc is explicit.

A. The Catholic Church has always taught and still teaches that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church to avoid Hell. That there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc does not contradict the infallible, ex cathedra teaching that everyone formally needs to be a Catholic to go to Heaven.


When the Catechism says those who know and yet do not enter it is referring to people, non Catholics, who are definitely going to Hell. This statement was placed in the Catechism to distinguish between those who will be saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire or blood or a good conscience.
Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846
B. That there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc contradicts the infallible, ex cathedra teaching that everyone formally needs to be a Catholic to go to Heaven.

A. Everyone needs to be a visible, formal, ‘card-carrying member’ of the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions (AG 7) and if there was someone in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire or a good conscience it would be known only to God.

B.The second is: everyone needs to enter the Catholic Church for salvation (Ad Gentes 7) except for those in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire etc (LG 16).
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