Thursday, July 28, 2011

REAL CATHOLIC TV ADMINISTRATION IN CONFUSION OVER DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

According to a World Youth Day announcement on their official website participants for the WYD 2011 Cultural Program must be recognized and endorsed by the bishops and Episcopal conferences in their respective countries. The announcement was made regarding Real Catholic TV which does not have this endorsement.

The announcement said that those selected to participate in WYD 2011 promote the authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church.

It’s Real Catholic TV which has really been promoting the real authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church. The inter religious department of the USCCB recently issued a statement saying Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church. This is contrary to the Bible and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Real Catholic TV has done a good program on this issue titled The Jews.

Real Catholic TV could do a program on the subject of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The meaning of the dogma has been changed by bishops and priests and bishops conference. This is not unity it is division.

Though it would be difficult for RealCatholic TV to do such a program since Simon Rafe of Real Catholic TV considers implicit salvation i.e those saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance, as explicit and so contrary to the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.He assumes Vatican Council II Lumen Gentium 16 is opposed to Cantate Domino , Council of Florence. It would mean that an ex cathedra dogma could have two interpretations.

Then an Administrator on the Real Catholic TV forum Dr. Brian Kopp in correspondence with me on the Forum denied the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. He was corresponding under the name Tom. When he became the Administrator he wiped out the ‘discussion’ on this subject. He again would not affirm the ex cathedra dogma on the Pascendi Forum. Then as administrator on the forum of Angelqueen he would provide information, under the name Tom, on extra ecclesiam nulla salus but would not affirm the dogma. Similarly he asked many questions which were answered on the forum of Fisheaters, but would not affirm the dogma.

So it is no surprise that Michael Vorris has been unable to do a program on the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There is too much of confusion and uncertainty among them.

The USCCB and so many organisations can get away with heresy and it can be traced specifically to the implicit baptism of desire which is considered explicit. Then they call this unity among the bishops.Unity in heresy among the bishops conferences with the approval of the Vatican - and  RealCatholic TV is unable to tackle this specific subject in the Catholic Church .
-Lionel Andrades
___________________________________________
When I saw the statement about Real Catholic TV not being "approved" for World Youth Day I was not surprised at all. Of course the liberal bureaucrats at the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) don't approve. Faithful Catholics rock their dissident Catholic boat.


Look at the way they treat those who question grants issued by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) to groups in bed with Planned Parenthood. Look at the high level officials who contribute to pro-abortion democrats, sit on the boards of pro-abortion organizations, and help to advance the culture of death. No wonder they went after hard-hitting, no apologies Real Catholic TV.

If you haven't seen the Madrid statement (no doubt written by a flunky at the USCCB) here is is. I found this part particularly interesting:

Participants in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Program must be recognized and endorsed by the Bishops and Episcopal Conferences of their respective countries. Participants were selected for Cultural program by the World Youth Day organization in close collaboration with the Pontifical Council for the Laity. Those groups participating in the World Youth Day 2011 Cultural Festival have been selected because, through their various activities, they promote the authentic teaching and unity of the Roman Catholic Church and have been endorsed by their local Bishop and Espiscopal conference. Michael Voris, "Real Catholic TV" and "No Bull in Madrid" did not receive such endorsement from their Bishop or Episcopal Conference.

This statement clearly implies that Real Catholic TV does not merit the approval of the "Episcopal Conference" which is the USCCB. The implication is that they do not stand for the "authentic teaching and unity" of the Church. What a joke from the USCCB with their history of scheduling dissenters for various meetings of their departments and even for the bishops themselves.

The USCCB has a record of persecuting orthodox Catholics. I've prayed the rosary often outside the November meeting of the U.S. bishops in both Washington, D.C. when they met on Capitol Hill and in Baltimore near Harbor Place. Several years we held signs begging the bishops to withhold Communion from pro-abortion politicians. The response of the bureaucracy one year was to get a horse-drawn carriage up on the sidewalk to block us while the bishops were boarding the buses to go to the opening Mass at the Basilica. While clearly wanting to keep us as far away from the bishops as possible, they weren't altogether successful. Several bishops, including Archbishop Chaput, thanked us for being there.

Several years ago, the Catholic Media Coalition of which I'm president, rented a hospitality suite at the Baltimore hotel and met with about a dozen bishops during the four day meeting. We attempted to get press credentials representing The Wanderer. Initially the press office said yes and told us to pick up our credentials the next morning. When we arrived, they informed us they had changed their mind because we were "lobbyists." Their proof was the fact that we passed out invitations (in the lobby) for bishops to visit the suite. When we politely and calmly questioned their decision, they threatened us with arrest and ordered us out of the area. That is the m.o. of the USCCB bullies whose actions against Real Catholic TV are predictable and petty. As for their deep concern about the "authentic faith and unity" of the Church, there's little evidence of that among some high level bureaucrats at the USCCB. Study the material at Reform CCHD Now and Stephanie Block's work at SperoForum for some eye-opening (and sad) revelations about the bishops' bureaucracy. Of particular interest is her article on John Carr.

The USCCB targeting of Real Catholic TV is actually an encouraging development as far as I'm concerned. The fact that the USCCB Goliath singled out this little media David for persecution illustrates the very real impact Voris and his organization are having on liberal Catholics whose grip on the Church bureaucracy is slipping. So go fight the bull in Madrid, Mike. And keep that red cape close by as a sign of your fidelity to the Holy Spirit and Holy Mother Church. And all of us faithful Catholic stay-at-homes will be praying you touch many hearts!
For more on Real Catholic TV at World Youth Day visit No Bull in Madrid.

Posted by Mary Ann Kreitzer at 6:25 PM -Les Femmes


THE GREAT BAPTISM OF DESIRE HOAX : FROM THE MOST HOLY FAMILY MONASTERY, CATHOLIC ANSWERS,USCCB,PONTIFICAL UNIVERSITIES AND SEMINARIES TO NUMEROUS OTHERS TODAY
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/great-baptism-of-desire-hoax-from-most.html#links

USCCB CLARIFICATION IN HERESY?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/05/usccb-clarification-in-heresy.html#links

USCCB CONTINUES TO MOCK CATHOLIC FAITH WHILE CDF COMMENT IS AWAITED : FEENEYISM IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE MAGISTERIUM
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2010/08/usccb-continues-to-mock-catholic-faith.html#links

VENERABLE POPE PIUS XII SAID ALL NON CATHOLICS NEED TO ENTER THE CHURCH WITH NO EXCEPTION TO AVOID HELL
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/venerable-pope-pius-xii-said-all-non.html

Thursday, July 28, 2011
WHAT I BELIEVE AS A CATHOLIC AND WHICH IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BEFORE AND AFTER VATICAN COUNCIL II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-i-believe-as-catholic-and-which-is.html#links



WHAT I BELIEVE AS A CATHOLIC AND WHICH IS THE OFFICIAL TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BEFORE AND AFTER VATICAN COUNCIL II

I believe the Catholic Church teaches that all non Catholics with no exception need to enter the Catholic Church through Catholic faith and the baptism of water, for salvation, to avoid the fires of Hell and to go to Heaven. This is what I believe.
Here is the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus defined three times by three different Church Councils.

Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215): “One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful outside which no one at all is saved…”

Pope Boniface VIII in his Papal Bull Unam Sanctam (A.D. 1302): “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Cantate Domino,Council of Florence,Pope Eugene IV (A.D. 1438 – 1445): “The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” -from the website Catholicism.org

VATICAN COUNCIL II AFFIRMS THE DOGMA

Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II (Note: All need the baptism of water for salvation and Catholics only give baptism to adults with Catholic Faith. So Ad Gentes 7 is saying that all people need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.)

CATECHISM AFFIRMS DOGMA
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.-Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 (Note : ‘which men through Baptism as through a door’ was a term used by the Church Fathers for the rigorist interpretation of outside the church there is no salvation).

CCC 845.To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.-Catechism of the Catholic Church n.845 Catechism of the Catholic Church

DOMINUS IESUS AND THE DOGMA
This doctrine must not be set against the universal salvific will of God (cf. 1 Tim 2:4); “it is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for this salvation”.-Dominus Iesus 20 (Note: Salvation is open for all however to receive this salvation they need to enter the Church).

Ordinary Magisterium

Pope Pelagius II (A.D. 578 – 590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 – 604): “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” (Moralia )

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 – 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 – 1829): “We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum )

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 – 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter )

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 – 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 – 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus )

“He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.” (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae )

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 – 1914): “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.” (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane )

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 – 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum )

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 – 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation….Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos )

Pope Pius XII (A.D. 1939 – 1958): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.” (Allocution to the Gregorian, October 17, 1953)

OBJECTIONS

We know that those saved implicitly are known only to God so this is not in conflict with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says every one needs to be a formal, explicit member of the Catholic Church for salvation. So Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) does not contradict the dogma. There is nothing in Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church which contradicts the dogma. We can never know who is saved through Jesus and the Church (CCC 846) is in partial communion with the Church or saved by the Word of God.

Secondly everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church. Those who know about Jesus and the Church and yet do not enter or those in invincible ignorance will be judge personally by God. We cannot judge who these cases are.De facto everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church for salvation.

Thirdly Venerable Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 affirmed the ‘rigorist interpretion’ of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which indicated that all non Catholics with no exception need to formally enter the Church for salvation. In the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 Venerable Pope Pius XII referred to ‘ the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’. The text of the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence ex cathedra on extra ecclesiam nulla salus indicates that all non Catholics in Boston need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell. This was exactly what Fr.Leonard Feeney taught. So Pope Pius XII supported Fr.Leonard Feeney in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949.

The Letter also mentions that in ‘certain circumstances’ a non Catholic can be saved with the baptism of desire. It was known for centuries, common sense says, implicit salvation does not conflict with the dogmatic teaching that every one on earth need to be an explicit, formal member of the Catholic Church for salvation.
I have provided references from Magisterial texts which show that the Catholic Church affirms the centuries old interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known to the Councils, popes and saints.

I believe that the Catholic Church teaches that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church through Catholic Faith and the baptism of water, for salvation.

Lionel Andrades

VENERABLE POPE PIUS XII SAID ALL NON CATHOLICS NEED TO ENTER THE CHURCH WITH NO EXCEPTION TO AVOID HELL

Venerable Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 affirmed the ‘rigorist interpretion’ of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which indicated that all non Catholics with no exception need to formally enter the Church for salvation. The propaganda against Pope Pius XII is continued by Griff Ruby in The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty Part Fifteen, They Fought the Bad Fight

The final reason Fr. Shmaruk gave for his position involves a profound irony. In advancing his extra ecclesiam stand, Fr. Feeney played an "...unwitting role in bringing the Church to an historical and theological turning point - that letter of Pope Pius XII (Suprema haec Sacra) putting on record in a definitive manner the recognition that people of good will outside the Roman Catholic community can also find salvation for themselves…In my estimation this document of Pius XII set the stage for the Ecumenical Movement in the Catholic Church and, in fact, for the ecumenical theology declared by Vatican II."-Griff Ruby

In the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (Suprema haec Sacra) Venerable Pope Pius XII referred to ‘ the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’. The text of the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence ex cathedra on extra ecclesiam nulla salus indicates that all non Catholics in Boston need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid the fires of Hell. This was exactly what Fr.Leonard Feeney taught. So Pope Pius XII supported Fr. Feeney in the Suprema haec Sacra.

The Letter also mentions that in ‘certain circumstances’ a non Catholic an be saved with the baptism of desire. It was known for centuries, common sense says, implicit salvation does not conflict with the dogmatic teaching that every one on earth need to be an explcit, formal member of the Catholic Church for salvation.
-Lionel Andrades

EXTRAORDINARY MODE (EX CATHEDRA)

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215). Ex Cathedra

2. “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 302.). Ex Cathedra

3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) Ex Cathedra – from the website Catholicism.org

ORDINARY MODE

Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14.1: "It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship."

Pope Pelagius II (578-590): "Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord… Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness… Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned… [If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church" (Denzinger, 469).

Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."

Pope Sylvester II, Profession of Faith, June AD 991: "I believe that in Baptism all sins are forgiven, that one which was committed originally as much as those which are voluntarily committed, and I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved."

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216), Profession of Faith prescribed for the Waldensians: "With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church , outside which we believe that no one is saved" (Denzinger 792).

Pope Clement VI, Letter Super Quibusdam (to Consolator the Catholicon of Armenia), September 20, 1351: "In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside of the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved… In the ninth place, if you have believed and do believe that all who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church and have died in final impenitence have been damned and have descended to the eternal punishments of hell."

Pope Leo XII (1823-1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum: "It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church… For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: 'If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'"

Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846), Encyclical Summo Jugiter Studio (on Mixed marriages), 5-6, May 27, 1832: "You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that very article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation. The words of that celebrated disciple of the Apostles, martyred Saint Ignatius, in his letter to the Philadelphians are relevant to this matter: 'Be not deceived, my brother; if anyone follows a schismatic, he will not attain the inheritance of the kingdom of God .' Moreover, Saint Augustine and the other African bishops who met in the Council of Cirta in the year 412 explained the same thing at greater length: 'Whoever has separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how laudably he lives, will not have eternal life, but has earned the anger of God because of this one crime: that he abandoned his union with Christ' (Epsitle 141). Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise Saint Gregory the Great, who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: 'The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved' (Moral. in Job, 16.5). Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of the Lateran IV, these things are written: 'There is one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved.' Finally, the same dogma is expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use (Creed of the Council of Trent), but also that which the Greek Orthodox Church uses (cf. Gregory XIII, Profession 'Sanctissimus') and that which other Eastern Catholics use (cf. Benedict XIV, Profession 'Nuper ad Nos')… We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.").

Pope Pius IX (1846-1878), Allocution Singulari Quadem, December 9, 1854: "Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and has taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of the eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore, they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and, by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume on the limits of the divine mercy which is infinite; far from Us, to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsel and "judgements of God" which are "a great abyss" (Ps. 35.7) and cannot be penetrated by human thought. But, as is Our Apostolic Duty, we wish your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive form the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice.

"For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains 'we shall see God as He is' (1 John 3.2), we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" (Eph. 4.5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.

"But, just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, 'for the hand of the Lord is not shortened' (Isa. 9.1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting to those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light."

Pope Pius IX (1846-1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem, March 17, 1856: "Teach that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and come to the community of His children (Romans 1; Hebrews 11; Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 8). There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord (St. Cyprian, Epistle 43), outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church (ibid, On the Unity of the Catholic Church)."

Pope Pius IX (1846-1878), Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863: "And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin. But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well-known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom 'the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior,' (Council of Chalcedon, Letter to Pope Leo I) cannot obtain eternal salvation. The words of Christ are clear enough: 'And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican' (Matthew 18:17); 'He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that dispeth you, despiseth Me; and he that dispiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me' (Luke 10:16); 'He that believeth not shall be condemned' (Mark 16:16); 'He that doth not believe, is already judged" (John 3:18); 'He that is not with Me, is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me, scattereth' (Luke 11:23). The Apostle Paul says that such persons are 'perverted and self-condemned' (Titus 3:11); the Prince of the Apostles calls the 'false prophets… who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction' (2 Peter 2:1)."

Pope Pius IX The Syllabus of Errors, attached to Encyclical Quanta Cura, 1864: [The following are prescribed errors:] "

16. Men can, in the cult of any religion, find the way of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation. - Encyclical Qui pluribus, November 9, 1846.

"17. One ought to at least have good hope for the eternal salvation of all those who in no way dwell in the true Church of Christ . - Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863, etc."

Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903), Encyclical Annum Ingressi Sumus: "This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church."

Pope St. Pius X (1903-1914), Encyclical Jucunda Sane: "It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation."

Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922), Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum: "Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."

Pope Pius XI (1922-1939), Encyclical Mortalium Animos: "The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ , no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors."

Pope Pius XII (1939-1958), Encyclical Humani Generis, August 12, 1950: "Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation."

Pope Pius XII (1939-1958), Allocution to the Gregorian University (17 October 1953) : "By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth."

Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."(Wikipidia Free Encyclopedia).

‘…Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.’-Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II (Emphasis added )

GRIFF RUBY LIKE THE DIMOND BROTHERS WHOM HE CRITICIZES ASSUMES THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE IS EXPLICIT AND KNOWN TO US IN THE PRESENT TIMES IN PARTICULAR CASES


The writers admits in personal correspondence that we personally do not know any case of the baptism of desire but will not make the change in his writings.


Griff Ruby in The Art of Scholastic Dishonesty Part Four, The Treatise is in Contempt of Context
writes the following.

Finally, quite a bit of space is spent on the category of the more recent saints, most notably Saint Francis Xavier and St. Isaac Jogues, who knocked themselves out bringing the Gospel to pagans, sacrificing much to bring them into the Kingdom of God. A similar claim is made in the opening pages of Gate of Heaven by Catherine Goddard Clarke to the effect that all the great saints of old similarly knocked themselves out sacrificing much to spread the Gospel or die for it, all supposedly out of some denial of BOB and BOD. The claim is made that they did what they did because they did not believe in BOB and BOD, or else because they didn't believe that anyone ignorant might possibly be saved. Obviously they understood that ignorance of itself is no salvation, and may only provide the rarest of excuses.
Lionel: Catherine Goddard Clarke was correct that no one us knows of an explicit case of the baptism of desire. Neither does Griff Ruby and he admits it in personal correspondence with me.

So the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was known for centuries is not in conflict with implicit baptism of desire or other implicit forms of salvation.
Lengthy quotes are given of the difficult travails they each went through for souls, the tortures they endured, the heroic lengths they went to in order to baptize. But look carefully at the quotes given from the details of their lives as given in the Treatise (given their length I will not repeat them here. The Treatise is the book written by the Dimond brothers on outside the Church no salvation). In all of them there is no clear statement from either that they deny BOB or BOD, only that since water baptism was in their power to provide, they were therefore obliged to provide it, especially for the infants, who often died shortly thereafter.
Lionel: One cannot administer the baptism of desire like the baptism of water. It is a gift of God given under certain conditions and circumstances.
But what the heroic sacrifices of these two men show is not some frenetic and panicked need to baptize everyone, but the clear obligation to proceed forward, slowly, carefully, methodically, with the advance of the Gospel, and most importantly, at the direction of the Church. For it is in the coordination provided by the leadership of the Church that makes it possible for the whole world to be evangelized, not some frantic and desperate belief that absolutely all are necessarily damned in all cases.

Going back to the Catherine Clarke book (but I see the same implication more subtly hinted as a kind of subtext in the Treatise) one gets the idea that belief in BOB and BOD are merely some localized phenomena, perhaps merely in modern, comfortable America, or at most, something cooked up in the late nineteenth century at the earliest.
Lionel: It was the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Cushing who suggested that there could be cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance i.e implicit salvation could be explicitly known to us, and so it contradicted Fr.Leonard Feeney and the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
The Boston newspapers wrote that the Catholic Church has changed its teaching on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. The Archbishop never issued a clarification.
In the past Church Councils,popes and saints knew that that there exists implicit salvation (baptism of desire etc) and it was only known to God so it was not opposed to the dogmantic teaching that everyone with no exception needed Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
Griff Ruby like the Dimond Brothers assumes that the baptism of desire is explicit and known to us in the present times.
But as evidences continue to pile up and show (and will continue throughout this series) BOB and BOD go way back, at least to the age of the Fathers, to say nothing of the hints of them contained in Sacred Scripture. But if denying BOB and BOD were the basis for such zealous missionary efforts, how is it that those who deny these things today make no such sacrifices?
Lionel: We do not deny the baptism of desire or blood we accept them as a possibility known only to God, which God only can judge. Griff Ruby admits we do not know any case in particular.

VATICAN COUNCIL II SUPPORTS THE DOGMA, FR.LEONARD FEENEY , THE POPES AND SAINTS

Jim says:

Again, your language seems to imply that if one does not receive Baptism and profess explicitly the Catholic faith and thus be a formal member of the visible Church—he cannot be saved.
Lionel: Correct. Every one on earth needs the baptism of water and Catholic Faith for salvation.

Jim says: There can be NO EXCEPTION TO THIS, you say.
Lionel: De facto (in reality) there can be no exception to this among the people I meet, among the people on earth in general.
This must not be confused with those saved implicitly by Jesus and who are known only to God. We cannot meet anyone on earth who is saved implicitly and whom we will know.
Hence there is no exception to everyone being a formal, explicit member of the Church for salvation.

Jim: That excludes the baptism of desire, which is also rendered meaningless by your stress on “IF”.
Lionel: The baptism of desire is meaningless if you consider it de facto, explicitly known in the present times and judge able. In its very nature it can only be accepted in principle and as a concept. It is de facto known only to God. When it is a reality it is known only to God. You cannot meet a person on the street saved with the baptism of desire.

Jim:
It is one thing to say that all are called to be Catholic, to have faith, baptism, and profess the Catholic faith, and that non-Catholics of various categories CAN BE SAVED; it is another to say “If anyone is saved with the baptism of desire”, leaving open the possibility that really NO ONE IS SAVED by that means.
Lionel: For us humans the baptism of desire is just a possibility, something acceptable. It is God who decides if someone is saved with the baptism of desire. I cannot say either way, that there were a certain number of baptisms of desire in Rome last month or there were none.

Jim: Your language remains quite confusing, and lacks the clarity and coherence of
Vatican II teaching. You try to defend it, but only muddle it further.
Lionel: It is important to note that the baptism of desire and all ‘implicit faith’ is known to God only and unknown to us in particular and this cannot be in conflict with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says everyone on earth needs to be an explicit member of the Church for salvation.


We could then realize that Vatican Council II supports the dogma, Fr. Leonard Feeney, popes and saints. We could also realize that the interpretation many Catholics are using on this issue comes from the secular media, with no text to support their position from Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


In Christ


Lionel