Saturday, March 24, 2012

VATICAN'S INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION MAKES AN ERROR IN ITS POSITION PAPER CHRISTIANITY AND THE WORLD RELIGIONS

10. Exclusivist ecclesiocentrism—the fruit of a specific theological system or of a mistaken understanding of the phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus—is no longer defended by Catholic theologians after the clear statements of Pius XII and Vatican Council II on the possibility of salvation for those who do not belong visibly to the Church (cf, e.g., LG 16; GS 22).-International Theological Commission, Christianity and the World Religions 1997. (1)    

 No where does Pope Pius XII or Vatican Council II state that non Catholic religions are the ordinary means of salvation or that non Catholics  do not have to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell (for salvation).

No where does Pope Pius XII or Vatican Council II state that those saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience are explicitly known to us or that they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

God’s grace can be there for all men of good will, we accept this is principle and know that in general we cannot claim to know who is saved in this category. Also in particular we cannot know of any non Catholic is saved with good will. Since this is only a possibility for us and it is not known explicitly it does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Pope Pius XII in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston referred to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible’ statement. The infallible dogma states all Jews in Boston, and the rest of the world, need to convert into the Church to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence). This is ‘exclusivist ecclesiocentrism’.

The International Theological Commission mentions Gaudium et Spes 20,Vatican Council II.(2) God’s grace can be there for all men of good will, we accept this is principle. Gaudium et Spes does not claim above that we know in general who is saved in this category. Neither does Gaudium et Spes state above that we can know of any non Catholic saved with good will.(Excluding those whom the Church calls saints).

Yes we accept this in principle that the plan of salvation includes all people, Jesus died for all people, however since we do not know any particular case saved in this category it does not contradict the exclusivist ecclesiocentrism of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
 
Dominus Iesus says Jesus died for all, God wills the salvation of all but to receive this salvation they all need to enter the Church.Ad Gentes 7 says all need Catholc Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.

It is accepted  in principle that a non Catholic  can be saved in invincible ignorance and with a good conscience. LG 16 does not claim that we know these specific cases, that they are explicit or that they are an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(3)

The International Theological Commission has made a doctrinal error.

If those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us explicitly then it would mean not every one on earth  needs to enter the Church for salvation but only those who know about Jesus and the Church and it is assumed we know who they are and can differentiate them from those in invincible ignorance.

Those who know about Jesus and the Church are known only to God in contrast to those in invincible ignorance. Only God can judge them. They are not explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The dogma does not mention those in invincible ignorance and neither states that only those who 'know' will be damned.

If the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 also assumed that those saved with the baptism of desire are visible and known to us and so are an exception to the dogma and the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney then it is an objective error. We do not know any particular case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire.
This is a fundamental objective flaw and not just theology.
-Lionel Andrades

1.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_1997_cristianesimo-religioni_en.html

2.
 All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way.(31) For, since Christ died for all men,(32) and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery.-Gaudium et Spes 20


3.
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.-LumenGentium 16
for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.-Lumen Gentium 16
Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.-Lumen Gentium 16
VATICAN RECOGNIZES DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS WITH RIGORIST INTERPRETATION : INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE (LG 16) AND BAPTISM OF DESIRE ARE NOT DEFACTO
 EXCEPTIONShttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/vatican-recognizes-dogma-extra.html#links


Former Secretary of the International Theological Commission holds that those saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/secretary-of-international-theological.html

IF THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 CONSIDERED THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS A DEFACTO EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA IT WOULD BE AN OBJECTIVE ERROR: WE DON’T KNOW ANY SUCH CASE
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/if-letter-of-holy-office-1949.html


ALL THE CATECHISMS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE TAUGHT THE RIGORIST VIEW OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/03/all-catechisms-of-catholic-church-have.html

The Vatican Councils of the Catholic Church have clearly taught that formal membership in the Catholic Church IS absolutely necessary for salvation
 http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/03/vatican-councils-of-catholic-church.html

No pope has said that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/03/no-pope-has-said-that-those-saved-in.html

Being saved in invincible ignorance is not a defacto exception to the teaching of Cantate Domino Council of Florence
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/03/being-saved-in-invincible-ignorance-is.html

The Catholic Legate - John Pacecho, Art Sippo,Peter Vere contradict each other ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/03/catholic-legate-john-pacecho-art.html

Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church is in agreement with the rigorist interpretation of outside the church no salvation
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/blog-post.html

Whether they know it or not non Catholics with the stain of Original Sin on their soul and mortal sins committed in that state and without the Sacraments outside of which there is no salvation, are all oriented to Hell
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/whether-they-know-it-or-not-non.html

When one is clear that all those saved are explicit only in Heaven it is not difficult to affirm ‘the formal necessity of belonging to the Church’
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/when-one-is-clear-that-all-those-saved.html

Ultra Traditonalists in accord with Vatican Council II on extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/ultra-traditonalists-in-accord-with.html

VATICAN COUNCIL II REJECTS THE THEOLOGY OF
 RELIGIONS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/03/vatican-council-ii-rejects-theology-of.html#links