THE SSPX HAS A TRUMP CARD AND IT’S TIME TO PLAY IT

Start making simple objective statements.

1. We don’t know anyone dead and saved in 2012.

2. We cannot know the dead saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience (Lumen Gentium 16) etc.

3. So Lumen Gentiuem 16, Vatican Council II does not contradict Ad Gentes 7 or the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

4. Since Ad Gentes 7 is in agreement with extra ecclesiam nulla salus it has to be in agreement with the Syllabus of Errors.

5. Vatican Council II is in accord with extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors and there are no exceptions of the visible dead i.e knowing the dead saved in 2012 .

6. Vatican Council II is a traditional Council just like the Council of Trent.

7. There is no theological basis for the new ecumenism.It’s foundation is the Richard Cushing Error, of being able to see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.

8. This Cushing Error is the basis of the theology of religions and the ecclesiology of communion.

9. Those who affirm Vatican Council II with the Cushing Error of being able to see the dead alive, who are supposed to be exceptions to the defined dogma, are in heresy. They are contradicting the dogma on exclusive salvation, Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the magisterial documents of Pope John Paul II.(Dominus Iesus 20, Redemptoris Missio 55 etc).

10. Religious in public heresy are not permitted, according to Canon Law, to offer Holy Mass, the Novus Ordo Mass or the Traditional Latin Mass. -Lionel Andrades

SSPX ANNOUNCE ACCEPTANCE OF VATICAN COUNCIL II IN LINE WITH THE SYLLABUS OF ERROR, THE DOGMA ON EXCLUSIVE SALVATION AND WITHOUT THE CUSHING ERROR. THERE WILL BE WORLD WIDE CONSTERNATION ON THE LEFT

The Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) General Chapter Statement (July 19,2012) shows that they can accept Vatican Council with the hermeneutic of continuity.

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/09/sspx-announce-acceptance-of-vatican.html#links

LEGION OF MARY GO DOOR TO DOOR DURING PARISH DAY OF EVANGELISATION

September 05, 2012

Taking Evangelization Door-to-Door

Catholics in the Diocese of Providence are doing what may have seemed unthinkable: knocking on doors and talking about their faith with total strangers.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1572/taking_evangelization_doortodoor.aspx

IMMODESTY, OR JUST IMMODESTY AND HOMOSEXUALITY

I spoke to a Eucharistic Minister at the Church San Leone Magno, Via Boccea Rome on Sept 6,2012. I asked her if a man with a pony tail, and carrying a women's bag at Mass in the mornings was a homosexual who was given the Eucharist ?

I mentioned I had seen him receiving the Eucharist and had a photo of him.I was asking these questions I mentioned so that I could write about it on my blog.He was immodestly dressed to receive the Eucharist. Also the type of clothing and the way he was dressed, the look he had, would identify him as active among the gays.

The Eucharistic Minister, Signora Giovanna, who was locking up the church, said he was an an educated, good person.He is given the Eucharist at Mass she said since we are not supposed to judge any one. She said I could quote her.

The way he is dressed indicates he is a homosexual I said and he should go for Confession and change his lifestyle before receiving the Eucharist. She agreed that Confession was needed.However she still thought it was alright for him to receive the Eucharist.

I mentioned that Pope John Paul II in Veritatis Splendor the encyclical on moral theology said that a mortal sin is a mortal sin and the outward action indicates the inner intention. This is contrary to the liberal interpretation that we cannot judge a person from his outward actions.

I met Signora Giovanna also today and asked her how could she give the Eucharist in principle to a homosexual, not just this person. She said I cannot judge and walked away.

For the Eucharistic Minister this was not even an issue of immodesty. Immodesty is  a sin which you can see before you. It results in lust in the onlooker and is the cause of scandal. The priest and Eucharistic Minister  can see the way a Catholic is dressed and they judge it is not immodest.Then  they say one cannot judge the sin of immodesty. One can see the person before you, one does not have to judge .

A mortal sin leads to Hell for all eternity where the 'worm dieth not and the fire is never extinguished'. At Garabandal, Spain Our Lady told the visionaries not to go the to beach.

Fr.Umberto Liberti is the Rector of the church, Chiesa di San Leone Magno, Via Boccea 60 and is available from 16.30 to 17.30.Tel: 06-6633448. E-mail : g.cazzaniga@idi.it

-Lionel Andrades

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TRADITIONALISTS WILL NOT SAY THAT THEY CANNOT SEE THE DEAD

Catholic Traditionalists are have difficulty in admitting that we cannot see the dead alive on earth even though this is something obvious. We cannot see the dead who are saved in invincible ignorance.However lay persons and religious who have had a traditional religious formation are afraid to answe. Even in  personal correspondence they will not answer if they can see the dead on earth.

Since if they cannot see the dead on earth, then the baptism of desire etc is not relevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus salus.  The popes were correct in mentioning the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance which is always IMPLICIT. It is always implicit and unknown to us and so it is irrelevant to the dogma. It was the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits there, who made it seem relevant to the literal interpretation of  Fr.Leonard Feeney.

Here is some correspondence on this blog in the comment section:

servusDominaeNostrae said...

"Do you want the popes to issue an encylical saying that we humans cannot see the dead-saved?"

I don't want the popes to do that; but if the above is true; that we humans cannot see the dead saved then is the teaching on purgatory (land of the dead) false since the church teaches tha all in purgatory are saved? Since those in purgatory are dead, and according to you the church cannot see the dead saved; how is it that it teaches that all these dead men in purgatory are saved?

I want you to poduce a dogmatic statement which teaches that the church doesn't know if non-catholics which are dead can be saved to back up your point.

Lionel:
"There are so many popes who have mentioned that a non Catholic can be saved with implicit desire or in invincible ignorance."

servusDominaeNostrae said...
The above is what you claim but you've not been able to produce a single shred of evidence. The question you must ask yourself is "Is invisible ignorance a doctrine of the church?" If it is, you need to produce the evidence.

Lionel:
Without the Richard Cushing Error Vatican Council II (AG 7) is in agreement with Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.Since those non Catholics dead, but saved, invincible ignorance and with a good conscience (LG 16) are not visible to us, LG 16 does not contradict Cantate Domino"

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Can you demonstrate in what way Vatican II LG is in agreement with the ex cathedra teaching of Cantate Domino? Where does Cantate domino say anything about invincible ignorance? It teaches that unless someone before their death is united to the Church, they cannot enter the Kingdom of God. How does a non-catholic; who is invincibly ignorant, enter the church before the end of his life? Can you answer this?

"and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Cantate Domino)

So Cantate Domino clearly states that even if someone were to shed his blood for the name of Christ, he cannot be saved. Don't you think that someone who has shed his blood for Christ's name, implicitly desires Christ? Yet that desire cannot save that individual unless he is visibly joined to the church before his death as cantate domino teaches. Again you'll have to show where the church teaches that invincible ignorance can save a non- catholic

September 7, 2012 11:24 PM

servusDominaeNostrae said...

Do you want the popes to issue an encylical saying that we humans cannot see the dead-saved?"

I don't want the popes to do that; but if the above is true;

Lionel:
But if the above is true.
Again I ask: Can you see any one who died and was saved in Heaven with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance?

Can you see the dead saved?

Can you see the deceased on earth in 2012 ?

Do you know any person on earth who is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus?

Can one hold the literal interpretation of the dogma and also implicit baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance ?

When I say that we cannot see the dead is this only my personal assertion is it also yours?

servusDominaeNostrae said...
that we humans cannot see the dead saved then is the teaching on purgatory (land of the dead) false

Lionel:
I am referring to seeing the dead saved on EARTH.

For there to be exceptions to the dogma we should be able to see the dead saved who have returned to EARTH.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Since the church teaches tha all in purgatory are saved? Since those in purgatory are dead, and according to you the church cannot see the dead saved;

Lionel:
 We accept that the dead who are saved are either in Purgatory or Heaven and those who are damned are in Hell.

I cannot see the dead saved on EARTH.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
how is it that it teaches that all these dead men in purgatory are saved?

Lionel:
The dead are there in Purgatory or Heaven you and I accept this in faith.

September 8, 2012 9:25 AM

servusDominaeNostrae said...

I want you to poduce a dogmatic statement which teaches that the church doesn't know if non-catholics which are dead can be saved to back up your point

Lionel
that the church doesn't know if non-catholics which are dead can be saved ?

We both believe that the dead are saved or damned.

The issue is can the dead saved with the baptism of desire for instance be seen on earth. Are they visible to us ?

They would have to be visible to us to contradict the extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The dogma says every one needs to convert into the Church and the liberals say no some do not. These 'some' must be visible to us on EARTH to be exceptions to the dogma.

September 8, 2012 9:29 AM

servusDominaeNostrae said...
"There are so many popes who have mentioned that a non Catholic can be saved with implicit desire or in invincible ignorance."

The above is what you claim but you've not been able to produce a single shred of evidence.

Lionel:
Off hand I can cite Mystici Corporis or the Letter of the Holy Office 1949. They mention implicit desire and being saved in ignorance.

Similarly other popes have mentioned these implicit cases.
They are implicit for us always and explicit only for God.
They are implicit for us since we do not know these cases on EARTH.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
The question you must ask yourself is "Is invisible ignorance a doctrine of the church?" If it is, you need to produce the evidence.

Lionel:
That person can be saved who has not had the Gospel preached to him is mentioned by the Church Fathers, St.Thomas Aquinas, Pope Pius XII.

Since these cases are implicit and not known to us on earth they do not contradict the dogma which was also affirmed by the Church Fathers, St. Thomas Aquinas and Pope Pius XII.

September 8, 2012 9:34 AM

Lionel

Without the Richard Cushing Error Vatican Council II (AG 7) is in agreement with Cantate Domino, Council of Florence.Since those non Catholics dead, but saved, invincible ignorance and with a good conscience (LG 16) are not visible to us, LG 16 does not contradict Cantate Domino"

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Can you demonstrate in what way Vatican II LG is in agreement with the ex cathedra teaching of Cantate Domino?

Lionel:
LG is usually cited by liberals as a contradiction to Cantate Domino.

It is not a contradiction since LG 16 is always implcit. Those saved with a good conscience or invincible ignorance are unknown to us on earth in the present time.

So LG 16 does not contradict the dogma.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Where does Cantate domino say anything about invincible ignorance?

Lionel:
Cantate Domino does not mention invincible ignorance. It does not mention any exceptions.

There are no exceptions.

Invincible ignorance is not an exception to Cantate Domino.

Invincible ignorance is irrelevant to Cantate Domino unless you think being saved in invincible ignorance is explcit and not implicit and these cases are known to us on earth.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
It teaches that unless someone before their death is united to the Church, they cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Lionel:
Correct.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
How does a non-catholic; who is invincibly ignorant, enter the church before the end of his life? Can you answer this?

Lionel:
If there is a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance it would be known only to God.How he enters the Church and who he is in particular would be known only to God.

It is unknown in any particular case to you and me.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
"and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Cantate Domino)

So Cantate Domino clearly states that even if someone were to shed his blood for the name of Christ, he cannot be saved.

Lionel:
Correct. We do not know such case.

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Don't you think that someone who has shed his blood for Christ's name, implicitly desires Christ? Yet that desire cannot save that individual unless he is visibly joined to the church before his death as cantate domino teaches.

Lionel:
Correct.

However you would agree that here we are talking about a hypothetical case.We do not know any such case on earth.

In principle what you say is true. Defacto, practically, explicitly there is no such case?

servusDominaeNostrae said...
Again you'll have to show where the church teaches that invincible ignorance can save a non- catholic

Lionel:
Letter of the Holy Office 1949, Mystici Corporis, Lumen Gentium 16 etc.
-Lionel Andrades