Monsgr.Guido Pozzo did not know: Fr.Gleize's book shows

 

Mons. Guido Pozzo, Secretary General of the Ecclesia Dei oversaw the Vatican-SSPX doctrinal talks.There is a citation in Fr.J.M Gleize's book which indicates Mons. Guido Pozzo did not know (1):

1.There is no exceptional way of salvation.Since there are no known cases of non Catholics saved outside the visible limits of the Church. Possibilities are not exceptions.

2. There is no known salvation outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church, mentioned in Vatican Council II.

3. So if there are some non Catholics saved outside the visible limits of the Catholic Church we would not know. Since this is only known to God these cases are irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.They are possibilities,something probable but not exceptions , known or unknown.

 

Mons .Guido Pozzo at a Conference mentioned that the action of Christ  outside the Catholic Church is completed through elements that belong  to the Catholic Church.

If Mons.Guido Pozzo could respond to the questions and issues raised on this blog Vatican Council II would emerge traditional.This would create a new possibility for talks and reconciliation with the SSPX .

The Council is traditional on the issues of other religions and Christian communities when interpreted with Feeneyism ( no visible exceptions) and not Cushingism (with visible exceptions). Ad Gentes 7 affirms the dogma when it says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.While Lumen Gentium 16, Lumen Gentium 8 etc are not exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 or the dogma, which Pope Pius XII called an 'infallible statement'.AG 7 is placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church No Salvation. So this is not something I have discovered or a personal view.

With Vatican Council II supporting the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus Cardinal Luiz Ladaria S.J, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith will not have any text in Vatican Council II to support his view on the theology of religions and the discarding of Limbo.

So this is a new opportunity for the SSPX to begin talks with Ecclesia Dei to receive full canonical status.They can now accept Vatican Council II which is traditional when the false premise of being able to see and meet the dead for us, who are saved in invincible ignorance etc, is not used to interpret magisterial texts.

-Lionel Andrades

 

 

1.
p.153.CFr.Guido Pozzo,Conferenz del 2 luglio 2010 a Wigratzbad,
Vaticano II- Un Dibattito Aperto, Don J.M.Gleize, 2013,Roma, Editrice Ichthys

SSPX irrational

There is no Catholic magisterial document which says there is an exceptional way of salvation.

There is no magisterial text which states there are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the traditional interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.

There is no magisterial document which states that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are known to us in the present times.

We cannot name any such case.

Yet the publications of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) District Italy state:

1.There is an exceptional way of salvation outside the visible limits of the Church ,

2.There is known salvation outside the visible limits of the Church mentioned in Vatican Council II.

-Lionel Andrades

 

From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28).

Lionel: The issue is discipline and conduct.

Hence, one cannot understand how the St. Benedict Center can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of canons 1381 and 1382 of the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.

Lionel: The issue is dicipline and conduct.

Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.

Lionel: The issue is discipline and conduct.

Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "" which is prescribed by the sacred canons.

Lionel: The issue is discipline and conduct.

Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.

Lionel: The issue is discipline and conduct.

If the issue was heresy then the cardinal who issued this Letter would be in heresy for alleging that there are known exceptions to the dogma on salvation, as if he knew some of them personally.
-Letter of the Holy Office 1949

When will the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary let us know if the baptism of desire is explicit and known to us individual cases in 2013 ?

George Brenner:
until the Pope himself clarifies this epicenter of our Faith

Lionel:
What about the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary ? When will they clarify it ?

Are you saying that they are in error? I am waiting for your clarifiction.

Once again: Is the baptism of desire explicit and known to us in individual cases in 2013?
If these cases are not known to us then is the baptism of desire per se an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.?

And if it is not then are there any exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney ?
-Lionel Andrades

(from comments on the blogpost Is it sound teaching to assume that Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church contradict Fr.Leonard Feeney on the traditional interpretation of the dogma on salvation?

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/is-it-sound-teaching-to-assume-that.html#links )